What my skincare routine been’s missing…
I thought I’d been such a good girl.
Daily Clarisonic. Skincare supplements. Weekly Vitamin C Masques. Marvel Mini Red and now Baby Quasar. Sunscreen every day. My list goes on and on and on…
But as I flip through my magazines and read the skincare news, reviews and serious business… I’ve learned that I’m missing out on something that pretty much every Dermatologist has agreed is crucial to the anti-aging arsenal. And that thing, girls… is VITAMIN A, or what you might hear more commonly referred to as retin-A and retinol. BUT, these are two very different things.
Retin-A (tretinoin) was developed about 25 years ago as a topical acne cream. It was also discovered that it had powerful exfoliating properties and that it was absorbed deep within the skin where it helped to build more collagen fibers. It’s been shown over and over again that Retin-A (and it’s related creams such as Renova) enjoy pronounced anti-aging effects, reduction of fine lines, smoother and softer skin, firmer skin, and reduction in pigmentation.
Retin-A and it’s associates CAN be tricky to use, however because topical VItamin A is very irritating. There are rules to follow, and not following those rules can result in very red, irritated, sensitive, peeling and even raw skin. Here’s a link to a great article by Dermatologist Audrey Kunin M.D. that lays down some of the rules!
So… you don’t want to try such a powerful product but still want some of the benefits of vitamin A? Then you want to try Over-the-Counter retinol or retinyl palmitate creams. These formulations are widely available… and while you won’t get the “punch” you get with a prescription product like Retin-A, you also have a lot less to worry about. Still, these creams can still be irritating to those with very sensitive skin. There are some skincare companies that produce products that carry the maximum retinol levels they possibly can, trying to give you the effects of Dermatologist products. Do these produce the same effect? I know a few women who have tried the Obagi skincare system (based on retinol) and also used Green Cream… and in the end, these ladies instead opted to go to their Dermatologists and “go for the big guns”. Why? Because we ALL want to see results. Big ones!!!
After so much reading, research and wondering, about 6 weeks ago I began my journey into the world of retinol and Retin-A. I started off with an OTC retinol product, Philosophy Booster Caps.
I used the Philosophy Booster caps for about 2 weeks, and honestly, I wasn’t seeing anything happen. My skin felt nice and smooth after application, but that was due to other ingredients in the product. I wanted to see a little peeling. A little exfoliation. A little proof of something!
Undaunted in my journey, I took the next step. I went to the Dermatologist and got a prescription for Retin-A. My instructions? Use every 3 nights. Wait to apply a tiny baby pea sized dab until after my skin has been dry for 30 minutes. Avoid getting too close to my mouth, nostrils or eyes. Wait for the product to absorb before I apply any other products. When I do apply other products, make sure that I don’t contaminate my neck, eye area, mouth or anywhere else on my face with the area in which I placed the Retin-A. In other words, keep my serums and creams applied ONLY were I put my Retin-A, then wash my hands and put a fresh amount on in those areas untouched by the Retin-A. Make sense? Easier said than done. Sunscreen? Even more important now. Can I Baby Quasar? Yes… it’s soothing to skin that might be irritated or sensitive from Retin-A. If I saw no redness or sensitivity, I could use the Philosophy Retinol Caps on nights when I did not use the Retin-A.
And so I applied. And waited.
Nothing happened the next morning. Or that night. My skin felt fine. I applied the Philosophy Retinol capsule.
The next morning, I looked normal too. No redness, no irritation. I washed my face and patted it dry. Then I looked in the mirror and I saw that my entire forehead and chin were exfoliating. They weren’t sensitive, there was no redness, and it didn’t hurt. But I was exfoliating! I applied a hyaluronic acid gel to my entire face because it felt kind of dry and tight (common with Retin-A) and this relieved that feeling, and the peeling disappeared. It didn’t appear again until after I had washed my face that night. Then it was gone… until 3 days later.
And so my journey has progressed…. It’s been a few weeks and quite a few days of peeling, but no redness, no pain, no sensitivity. Good. I am tolerating Retin-A really well. And I am pleased to say that I am in love with the results that I am seeing. I haven’t felt like any single skincare product, treatment or procedure has given my skin this type of joie de vivre in the last 15 years!!!
I love Retin-A and I love my few days of Retinol in between. I’ll soon be applying the Retin-A every two days and see how I tolerate that.
The best part is, that my skin is so much smoother and so much more refined, just from this little bit of application, that it’s making my makeup look and feel that much better!
Here are some OTC retinol products that are definitely worth a try ladies (I have not found any “primarily natural ones” in my travels, so if you know of some please do share these in the comments! Thanks!!!)… and if you get brave and decide to wander into the Dermatologist’s office and go for the “real” thing, you know that the Aromaleigh Aficionadas forum is always here for you to vent, ask for advice or share your experience!!!
Yes, Retin-A is KING (or Queen, if you prefer). However, for younger women there are some good alternatives, even other than retinol, etc.. One is Kinetin, another is Matrixyl. Both have been tested and actually do work. Blue Copper was recommended to me by a plastic surgeon, but I could never find the brand I wanted. It is true, too, that for anything we use, WE MUST STAY OUT OF THE SUN and its harmful effects…I believe Kristen blogged on this last week or so. I myself use Kinetin, and have found it to be excellent, and have even searched out ways to reduce its COST. Whew. All of these things cost beaucoup bucks!!! Retin-A and some of the other things I mentioned truly do make a difference in the skin’s appearance!
Thanks for the info! A word of warning: these products should not be used while pregnant, since too much vitamin A can increase the risk of birth defects!
I am about to find a local dermatologist and try to get a prescription for Tazorac which worked well for my acne in the past and is also a vitamin A product. (It never caused peeling even though I slathered it on every night, so it’s either more gentle than Retin-A or I have super resistant skin! But it got rid of the acne so that’s all I need!) Um…. maybe TMI …. but I just noticed a freckle that’s starting to look strangely discolored, so I figure I might as well find a dermatologist and kill two birds with one stone
(The extra embarrassing part is that the freckle is right on my bottom! That is going to hurt if they freeze it off!)
Interesting…I will check into some of those OTC products, as my skin is looking rather lackluster lately (despite a good skincare routine).
Miss K– Do you still use Nocturne? When/how do you fit it into your nightly regimen?
neat info like always.
all my skincare comes from garden of wisdom now. i had been using philosophy prior and wanted to switch to a more natural regime. cant believe how much my skin has changed for the better in a few months.
the owner just released a retinol item that you can check out here:
http://www.gardenofwisdom.shoppingcartsplus.com/catalog/item/5875289/5730491.htm
Kristen, this has been discussed on the forum before but I was curious to see what you thought of it — how does Nocturne work with retinoids? (I see Ella already asked this.) Last time I was on Tazorac I used it every night, so I was wondering if Nocturne would work with that or not. Should I wait a while between applying products? I know that someone suggested that glycolic acid serum and Nocturne probably shouldn’t be used on the same nights…
Of course we will see what Rx I actually end up with … maybe my new derm will want me to try something different than Tazorac! I already have an appointment for next week!
Ladies,
I am by no means an expert on retin-a, this is just my personal experience that I try to share in my blog. I’ve never used the glycolic, so can’t answer this- I carry this just for your convenience. I expect everyone should take it and use it as a starting point for their own personal research and discussion with their dermatologists, etc. From what I have read, You use products containing Vitamin C OR retinoids at night. Vitamin C is deactivated by sunlight. I’ve read that you should use Glycolic cleansers in the AM. I’ve read that you shouldn’t use AHA/Glycolic at night, that these deactivate retinol. So I guess use these on off nights- since most people won’t use retin-A or might alternate serums from night to night.
I will say that there is some misconception that Nocturne is a very high in Vitamin C product, and however this was started, it is erroneous. if this product contained huge amounts of Vitamin C, and I suggested for you all to leave it on your face, you would all have massive amounts of irritation. I have used a Vitamin C mask from Murad that involves putting Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) powder on your face after you mix it with a gel and it stings like heck for the entire ten minutes you keep it on your face.
The few skincare products that I carry I just carry as a convenience for customers that requested them to be honest. I’d gotten so ratted out for not carrying skincare that I felt like I had to carry *something*… and since I love VItamin C so much and they are nice products, I decided to stock them. I’d rather not stock ANY skincare at all, to be honest!!! (if you’ve been around for a few years you know what I mean, LOL!)
I’m not using Nocturne right now. Marvel Mini and Baby Quasar took care of everything that I was applying Nocturne for- all of my redness is gone and my pores are nice and tight. The Baby Quasar is really killer. But I might start to use it again when the weather gets really humid because I could use something to absorb a little bit of my product at night so I don’t wake up all shiny faced.
K
I used to use a retinol product at night, but then I got a job working outdoors…and I’m scared that it will make my sensitive Northern European skin even more sensitive to the sun. I’m freckling with SPF 45 and frequent reapplications…
But I did notice results when I was using it.
Wow Kristen, I’m so glad to hear you’re getting great results from RetinA! And so surprised to hear you’re not experiencing more irritation – you go girl! I would’ve thought with your fair skin, you would have at least as much irritation as I had. I consider my skin to be pretty “resistant” – oily, no allergies, no rosacea, loves strong AHA’s, etc. I’ve been using Obagi for a good while – and for the first two months it gave me the most horrendous irritation around my mouth – the corners actually cracked sometimes – I peeled really bad too … well I guess it goes to show you YMMV. Another thing I noticed: after 2 straight years of using the stuff, the peeling still has not stopped. I really have to exfoliate scrupulously. But I have to say though, I took your (and many others!) advice about taking fish oil, and I swear it has made a difference! Hardly any peeling for the last few days – yay!!! I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it’s not just a fluke. Yep, now that we’re RetinA-ing, I think just using sunscreen isn’t enough anymore – I think it’s best to wear a hat and better yet just avoid sun in large doses.
Everything I’ve read says that vitamin c should be applied in the daytime *because* it is deactivated by sunlight. That’s the whole point of an antioxidant. It oxidizes instead of your skin cells. That’s how it offers protection to your skin cells.
Whoever asked about glycolic acid and retin-a…there are no counter indications but most people don’t have resistant enough skin to tolerate both. You should stop all acid products when starting a retinoid, then if you tolerate it well after 4-6 weeks, it’s fine to start re-introducing the glycolic acid. For people with *extremely* tolerant skin who don’t see results from alcohol-based gel retin-a and tazorac, you can increase the potency by applying a non-emollient (we’re talking alcohol based) BHA toner underneath the retinoid.
You can use both retinoids and Nocturne at night if you want to, if you’re not too sensitive. Apply the retinoid first, then wait awhile before applying Nocturne. Retinoids especially in gel form absorb *fast*. You can even apply it, wait between 1 min to an hour depending on how sensitive you are, and then wash it off and it will still be very effective. If you have super resiliant skin to the point where you need BHA under you retinoid in order to peel, I wouldn’t do that, but for everyone else it works and is a way to increase tolerance. But, to the point, Nocturne w/ retinoid is fine because the retinoid does the bulk of its work in a few min anyway
HTH.
Oh no, I made a really long post and it got lost somehow…my main points were retinoids and Nocturne are fine, but apply the retinoid first. And glycolic acid and retinoids are fine, but discontinue the glycolic acid while you start the retinoid. If you are tolerating it well after 4-6 weeks, it’s fine to re-introduce the glycolic acid, but most people won’t find it necessary because retinoids exfoliate better than glycolic acid anyway.
That’s true, that Retin-A provides ample exfoliation so you probably would not need glycolics or AHA’s as well… Although I could see one starting to use a glycolic creamy cleanser down the line to help with dryness and to help the exfoliation periods along…
I did crack my mouth corners the first time I used it. I did not keep the product far enough away from my mouth, or when I put my other product on top, I got it to migrate. I’ve learned my lesson and apply with precision now!
My skin is pale, but it’s pretty tough stuff- I don’t have thin and delicate skin even though I’m a light-skinned girl. I’ve got a fair amount of Italian and Germanic blood in me, so I am told. I tolerate pretty much all skin products seamlessly and can switch from line to line with no issues whatsoever.
K
green3, your post didn’t get lost — thanks for all that info!
My skin is not sensitive, but I don’t think it’s super-duper resistant because Tazorac worked well for me in the past without using another acid product. By “work well”, I mean it cleared up my acne. I never saw any peeling — was I supposed to? My dermatologist never said anything about peeling. For that matter, the only time my skin has peeled was when I tried a 10% benzoyl peroxide cream, and once when I piled on Nocturne really thick for a few nights in a row!
I’m not sure if being pale has much to do with sensitive skin (other than being sensitive to sunburns, of course). My skin is super pale and translucent enough that I’ve had permanent dark circles since I was about 13. Maybe it does have something to do with ancestry, I have a lot of German and English in me. However, I’m still not sure why I’m so pale — my mom has more of a medium complexion (and she is over half German), while my dad is fair but tans much easier than me. I am the palest one in my family!
Amanda, I used to buy from gardenofwisdom a few years ago. I checked out your link and this new retinol product sounds VERY interesting and more along the ‘natural’ way which is what I prefer. Thanks!
Can we use suncreen on oily skin? I was told not too but found a few sites that say it’s ok (like here http://www.skinphoria.com/oil-free-sunscreen-is-just-brilliant/ )? Any ideas…I’m worried about further breakouts. Thanks, Miss K!
I am glad you are writing about this because it is something I have been researching a lot. My skin is changing a lot lately. I would like to try retin A. The other day I made an appointment to have some spider veins on my nose “zapped off” and also to have some microdermabrasion sessions. The spider vein removal will be
$ 250 but I am going to go for it. The skin care line this place (dermatologists) recommended was called Vivite. I looked it up when I got home and it does look very exfoliating and it was $ 70.00 less for the whole system online, then in the doctors office! I might try it, we’ll see. They told me to not combine this with Retin A – that it worked great by itself (the whole line) even for sensitive skin. I have not yet found an all natural product that works great for exfoliation but for moisturizing yes-mychelle products.
Thanks for writing this. I would love the mini marvel and that light system too. I just need to have more money…..
This is a wonderful post! I have been using Retin A for the past year and have noticed great things with my skin: more even tone, clearer, and firmer.
However, I am hearing more and more that Retin A might have some bad long term side effects. What have you heard about this? This is a link about Retinoids at the Skin Deep website: http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=705541.
I am really conflicted about whether or not to continue to use Retin A and would really appreciate your opinion.
Thanks! Any time I’m given a link to the cosmetics safety database, I flinch- because I’ve come to know this group as a fear-based website that has a lot of flawed information in their databased about products.
I take what they say very lightly and recommend everyone else to do the same. They are trying to frighten consumers. That is their goal. So I tell everyone to research elsewhere and no use their data as bible.
What they have about retin A is no different than the warnings that come with prescription retin A. Don’t use it if you are, or plan to become pregnant- because of potential reproductive toxicity. These studies aren’t anything new, but the site sure does make it all look really scary and make you fearful, don’t they? That’s their goal. They do this with everything.
I did not see anything else about retin A there other than the reproductive toxicity studies listed, which are why prescription retin A products are not to be used when you are pregnant.
So, I am not at all concerned for my personal use, as I am not pregnant and do not plan to have any more children.
I take the cosmetics safety database with a grain of salt. They are like the boy who cried wolf, IMO. I tend to not believe anything that they say because they hype everything and try to frighten you about everything and make everything appear bad and extreme. I hate this type of fear- mongering. I have no respect for it.
K
Thanks so much Miss K. Most sites (including medical sites) confirm that Retin A is highly beneficial for your skin. It increases cell turnover rate, and improves sun damaged skin.
I was directed to cosmetics safety database site from a natural skincare company, who is trying to sell me their skincare line!
For now and considering my good experiences with Retin A, I am going to continue using it!
Jen
Hi Miss K,
I have been using the mini marvel for a few months and love it. I do double sessions every other day, and sometimes every day. But then I started hearing about the baby quasar and I’m wondering if it really is in fact better. Do you know what the difference is? The marvel mini is just a LED light and the quasar uses red and infrared light. Are these completely different types of light, or is it the same type of light, but the quasar is more powerful because it has a higher wavelength 1200 (Its highest level) as opposed to 880 for the mini marvel.
Also, does the baby q work much better than the mini? Is it worth the upgrade? did it do more lifting? Oh, and can you tell me if the baby q helps with pigmentation, because I was thinking of getting the green mini for that.
This is the first time I’ve posted on anything before, but I do love reading your comments on beauty and think that you do your homework and are very knowledgeable
Thanks soooo much for your valuable advice!!!!
Des
Hi,
knows me somebody advice, please?
I yourself I’m to buy baby quasar, quasar maestro and quasar capsule, well still hesitate, because I am so far did not find on THE WEB thought and know-how people , who own these apparatuses.
Don’t forget to use a broad spectrum sunscreen of SPF 20+ as part of your daily skin care routine. Sue Ibrahim